If I use two Peplink MAX BR1 PRO in series and set Outbound Policy Weighted Balancing; performance wise how close can I get to a true “Load Balancing” router?
Since you didnt really define what “true” means its hard to know what your expectations are for load balancing.
Generally speaking one or more Peplink devices can do true load balancing.
Session balancing is what Weighted Balance algorithm does. It follows the ratio defined for each WAN.
You can also do per-packet load balancing if you use Speed Fusion and that also mitigates issues with either WAN becoming degraded or going down.
Have you looked at the product pages? https://www.peplink.com/technology/speedfusion-bonding-technology/
I’ll assume that by using them in “series” you have one BR1 connecting (“BR1#1”) via ethernet (“WAN1a”) and cellular (“WAN1b”), and that WAN1a is connected to the LAN of the second BR1 (“BR1#2”), which (only) connects via its cellular WAN (“WAN2b”).
In that case BR1#1 can achieve load-balancing of its two WAN connections in the normal (“true?”) manner, with the outbound policies determining the particular load-balancing regime as per your preference. As pointed out by @erickufrin, this would be session-level balancing. As he suggests, you can define a SpeedFusion connection employing the two WAN connections of BR1#1, getting packet-level balancing (and other benefits). Still a “true” load-balancing of the two WANs of BR1#1.
In the above, BR1#2 is simply a very expensive modem.
Of course, you may employ other capabilities of BR1#2 (such as having other devices hanging off its LAN ports), making it a more worthwhile topology.
Things become a tad more interesting if BR1#2 employs both its cellular and its wired WAN options, in which case you get three connections from BR1#1 to the internet (WAN1b, WAN2a and WAN2b). You can balance across those three by working with the outbound policies of the two BR1s, e.g., combining a weighted balance of 2:1 on BR1#1 with a weighted balance of 1:1 on BR1#2.
However, if you connect BR1#1 with SpeedFusion employing WAN1a and WAN1b, then you will get the benefit of only one of the connections of BR1#2 (either a random choice, or the one determined by whatever outbound policy you have for BR1#2).
I thknk this is correct (wiser heads may correct me :-))
Cheers,
Z
Thanks, the current MAX BR1 Pro 5G is in my Airstream RV with an ATT and Verizon SIM. Switching is slow and most of the time is done manually. A second 5G/CAT-20 modem would allow me to switch seamlessly between ATT/Verizon. Any recommendations for a 5G/CAT-20 less expensive solution? The MAX BR2 Pro is still a lot more expensive and don’t plan on continuing InControl2/SpeedFusion due to retirement income and cost.
See my reply to Sigurd Meldal, should fill in some information gaps.
First, a caveat: I have no personal experience with the 5G product lines - after evaluating the use cases (mostly rural California) the value-added of getting 5G equipment simply was not worth it. The sweet spot (depending on location) ranged from CAT-6 (most places that was as good as the carriers offered) to CAT-12 (generally the better deal) to CAT-18 (but having to accept losing T-Mobile).
The one location where we have cascading routers (as you propose) it combines an HD2 with a Transit Duo CAT-12 for a total of four active connections. The topology works well for that location, with multiple carriers and the resulting redundancy.
The throughput does not get close to the limit of 400Mbps, so the router cap on that parameter is not an issue.
Given that, to get a less expensive set-up than adding another BR1 Pro 5G is a matter of what you’re willing to trade away. Dropping the BR1 Pro from 5G to CAT-20 saves you $150 or so. Dropping to CAT-18 or lower saves you more, but at the cost of router throughput being lower for that particular connection.
In other words - I dunno. But I expect that whatever your requirements for the throughput of the additional router/line will inform you about the range of options to be considered.
Cheers,
Z
PS: Btw., IC2 (and related subscriptions) drop in cost as you move to less expensive routers. IC2 being as useful as it is, the cost (and benefit) of keeping that around is something worth keeping in mind. You may consider limiting the subscription(s) to core equipment, such as your primary router, ignoring the other units…
To some degree my response is just as much of a question as a possible solution. Let me start with the questioning part 1st.
OP states his equipment is installed in an Airstream RV & the switching between SIM cards is slow & not seamless. Please don’t interpret this question as negative, rather I’m trying to learn more, what are you doing on your RV that requires a switching of SIM cards seamlessly? Aside from multiple seamless cellular connections, how would a 2nd BR1 Pro afford significant benefits that would justify the expense of the hardware as well as the additional data plans from the cellular carriers.
A suggestion to consider. I have a BR1 Pro LTEA (CAT-20) that is installed in my RV. At the time of purchase (pretty much feel the same way today), 5G was more marketing hype than reality for the RV community. I was more interested in efficiency with my LAN than the alleged blazing speeds attained with 5G. The price difference between the 4G version & the 5G was allocated to a Starlink DISHY. Starlink equipment was subsequently installed and integrated into my LAN. Not sure of the correct terminology to use, but by having 2 internet signal sources in Priority 1, the speed tests that I have performed reflect a result that is greater than any speed test on an individual signal source. I use a variety of applications for on line meetings and can not recall any issues (dropped calls) with over a month’s use. So far, it appears the Stalink is carrying about 65% of the workload (GB’s consumed).
On the surface, this would seem to solve any issue associated with the seamless switch over of different SIMs a 2nd BR1 or the purchase of a BR2 would provide… at a lower overall out of pocket expense.
Again, I want to stress this is as much a question as it is a suggestion. I realize my lack of knowledge may be more than evident & for that I offer my apologies.
Thanks in advance for any response.
Thanks, the current MAX BR1 Pro 5G is in my Airstream RV with an ATT and Verizon SIM. Switching is slow and most of the time is done manually. A second 5G/CAT-20 modem would allow me to switch seamlessly between ATT/Verizon. Any recommendations for a 5G/CAT-20 less expensive solution? The MAX BR2 Pro is still a lot more expensive and don’t plan on continuing the InControl2/SpeedFusion due to retirement income and cost.
Hi lemondrop9344, the “Peplink MAX Br1 Pro 5G” uses the Sierra Wireless EM9191 (or similar) modem and supports two SIMs (‘A’ & ‘B’). On initialization is takes about a minute for the modem to initialize on a single SIM. Let’s say my primary is ATT ‘A’ SIM and I have no coverage, then I switch to the ‘B’ SIM on Verizon as my primary and wait another minute to initialize.
ATT costs $50/mo for 100 GB of data, Verizon costs $20/mo for 50 GB with Boeing/military veteran discounts. I have to set data limits on ATT because it shuts down to snail data rates. The EM9191 offers 4G CAT-20 service most of the time, occasionally I get 5G but not too often in the remote boondocks while camping. I do a lot of dry remote camping while on the road.
The 2nd modem would in fact allow for simultaneous use of both ATT & VZW. There would be no “switching” at all because both would be active all the time. That is the ideal setup if you have 2 sims from separate carriers. It eliminates all the hassle of messing around with figuring out which provider is best in a given spot. Speedtest measurement also takes time on top of switching. And is not foolproof because the carrier speed can fluctuate,
I have used 2x BR1 Pro 5G’s in that exact setup as well as multiple other iterations with different peplink devices. Using the ethernet port of the main BR1 Pro will limit your ability for expansion to some extent… I got Starlink RV recently and needed another ethernet so I got a BR2 Pro. Being connected to ATT+VZW+Starlink feels very cozy 
Thanks to both of you for your responses. I am familiar with the amount of time it takes a MAX BR1 Pro to switch from one SIM to another. I am curious as to what y’all might be doing in your RV’s that requires concurrent use of multiple SIMs such that it requires the acquisition of a second MAX BR1 Pro or the dual modem model of this product. Is it an issue of convenience or are you processing ‘stuff’ so critical you require this type of connectivity? This is not a how it works question, more of a why do you need it question. Please understand, I’m just curious.
In the case of remote camping, it would seem the purchase of a Starlink DISHY would be a more economical solution vs. a 2nd MAX BR1 Pro. In my limited time with the Starlink DISHY I have found it to be very reliable. As I read the OP’s post, my interpretation was that he was looking for a less expensive solution.
Eric, I assume from your post you have your DISHY connected via Ethernet to your LAN. To date, I am only using the DISHY as a WiFI as WAN connection to my Peplink. I capture the 5 Ghz signal from the DISHY & the 2.4 Ghz signal from the RV park WiFi (Yes, I have good RF park WiFI) & place both in Priority 1. I’m not sure what the correct terminology for this is called, but it works very well… I assume I could also move 1 of the data plans SIMs into priority 1 also.
I will admit that I lack the technical know how of many respondents on this forum. However, when I look at the Android Starlink app information, I see the speed of the download from the satellite to the DISHY is stated at one speed (let’s assume it is X Mbps). The speed from the DISHY to the LAN via WiFi (in this case I assume it’s my Android phone) is typically 4X (4 times faster). I am having difficulty understanding what advantage an Ethernet connection would provide… assuming I am interpreting the information correctly. Again, I am trying to understand what I might be missing with my current configuration.
Thank y’all for indulging me.
Im not just browsing cat videos in my campervan. I work remotely. Frequently in remote/challenging/congested areas.
I am not using the starlink router. I cut the end off the supplied cable and put standard rj45 end on it. I am powering the starlink with DC powered POE injector. I dont have the hassle and inefficiency of the starlink router in between the dish and the peplink.
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WHAT??? No cat videos!!!??? ;<) ;<)
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Eric, My continued posting on this subject is to try and understand why one would have internet requirements that would necessitate the use of 2nd MAX BR1 PRO or the MAX PRO model with 2 cellular radios.
We live & work in our RV full time. Fortunately we have a generator as well as a pure sine wave inverter to power the RV when we don’t have 120 VDC electrical hookups. I can relate to remote/challenging/congested areas and understand the need for redundancy for internet.
I provide support to my son’s home office business network & nothing we do is so critical that it requires multiple data SIMs with concurrent access from my RV. From my perspective, Starlink equipment is a viable & less expensive alternative to device(s) utilizing multiple cellular radios. The question I was hoping you would respond to is… ‘what sort of work are you doing from your RV that requires active multiple SIMs’? For example, are you broadcasting real time video feeds, etc.?
Have you eliminated (as in completely removed) the Starlink router & wired the satellite DISHY directly to a Peplink device or have you just eliminated its functionality?
Running ‘stuff’ off DC can present it’s share of issues. That you are powering the Starlink off of the DC voltage in your camper is impressive. I assume you are also powering the Peplink(s) device(s) as well as the other devices on you LAN via DC. Would this be a correct assumption? If so, that’s even more impressive.
From my perspective, the Starlink router does not bring much to the table. In my case, it receives and transmits (via WiFi) the Starlink signal to my Peplink device some 7’ away, apparently at a speed that is some 4 times faster than it can receive if from the DISHY. The Peplink device then does its magic with the other internet signal sources (cellular of RV park WiFi) and all is well.
You are not the only one that is using a combination of Peplink devices with multiple cellular radios & are connecting their Starlink system via Ethernet, The DC POE scenario you described makes sense if you don’t have access to 120 VDC. I keep thinking I am missing something significant somewhere as I seem to be one of the few RV people with Starlink connecting to my Peplink via WiFi.
Why not just use your cell phone hot spot? Why do you even need a single Peplink device? [rolls eyes] It is not just a matter of convenience and not wanting to wait to switch sims. I dont understand why that is so difficult to grasp. Most locations a single cellular carrier cannot provide stable internet. The dual cell plans is already sunk cost. The cost of additional hardware to run 2 sims simultaneously is negligible in the grand scheme of things.
And I am not just mindlessly typing and clicking away on my own world inside the van. My role requires me to frequently be the one presenting or driving a meeting. Which often contain both internal and external (customer/prospect) participants. Stable video and audio for Zoom is essential for me.
There are countless issues with the starlink router:
- added complexity. i dont need another thing between me and the internet. removing it I lose nothing
- requires an additional dongle to attach via ethernet
2a. or added latency and finickiness of using starlink via wifi-wan - powered off AC which means increased power consumption
- there is no MOUNTING brackets for the router. how to keep it from flying around
- etc…
There are all sorts of blog posts about how to “hack the starlink” which is nothing more than changing the end on the cable to allow it to be cabled directly into your own router and power it off of DC poe-injector.
Anyone who has ever done basic work with CAT-5+ wiring or DC wiring can figure it out.
All of my networking gear runs off DC power.
Eric,
Thanks for your detailed response.
My line of questioning was intended to be informational for me. ‘Stable video and audio for Zoom is essential for me.’ provides a lot of context that was missing in previous postings.
The concept of having sufficient hardware to run multiple SIMs is not hard to grasp so much as to what one does that actually makes it worth doing. You clarified that, thank you.