I’m seeking hardware suggestions from experienced users of NMEA 2000 bridges to a Pepwave router……MAX BR1 Pro 5G in my case.
I’ve used Actisence and now Yacht Devices bridges with some success, however they seem to run short on processing power in more complex systems. Yacht Devices next Ethernet bridge release in tends to beef-up their robustness.
Any other suggestions in the less than $500 range.
@Captain_Nik Might have some ideas.
Ahoy There!
This is an excellent question 
I think best to lay down a few questions to start off with,
YDEN-02 we have installed without issues on large networks on 70-80-90ft boats without problem.
Solution all depends on what you’re actually trying to do. What type of vessel, what systems you have onboard etc…
Cheers
Greetings Nik!
I believe my system is fairly simple. The LAN side layout is simple. A Max BR1 Pro 5G (x55), with two AP One AXs at either end of a 52 foot motor yacht. Several vLANS to segregate traffic to two to three WANs. OpenVPN running embedded NordVPN config for some traffic. We run Apple TV and WiFi calling outside VPN. All three APs in operation. Connected devices typically count 14-ish.
The marine N2K network primarily consists of Garmin equipment, 3 Chartplotters, AIS, VHF Radios, Autopilot, Radar. Also a Marathon weather station WSO-200 (2nd generation) and a Yacht Devices YDWG-02. I’ve wired the N2K all myself and have confirmed all the loading and wiring practices are compliant to standards.
The primary intent for the YDWG bridge is to get N2K data to an iPad Pro running Aqua Map, secondly we’ve discovered the embedded YD Web Gauges feature, hence use that. Our intended connectivity is 2-3 concurrent sessions of Aqua Map running while underway (2 iPad, 1 iPhone), and 1-2 concurrent Web Gauges sessions.
The issue manifests with what appears to be intermittent interruptions in the N2K data stream as seen in the Aqua Map and Web Gauge apps data files going blank for 1 to 5 seconds. The interrupted data is from both Maretron and Garmin devices, although from Maretron is more prevalent. Best I can tell the same corresponding data on the chartplotter display is unwavering…hence I’m suspicious of the YDWG or perhaps the Pepwave config.
Prior to having two AP One AX’s I just used a pair of Netgear Nighthawk mesh routers with the same BR1, which experienced similar behavior, however perhaps to a lesser extent…but that’s a distant memory in my senior mind.
To troubleshoot I’ve isolated to single sessions of Aqua Map and Web Gauges. The issue still occurs on both, although seems less frequent when isolated to one device/session. I’ve moved the YDWG to other nodes on the N2K backbone with differing WiFi strengths, no change. I’ve associated the YDWG with either of the two AP One AX’s and base BR1, no change. I’ve associated to an isolated vLAN and the problem seemed to become more frequent, hence now back on default primary LAN. I’ve used either app on different iOS and macOS devices, no change.
Initially the YDWG had a persistant disassociation/association with the AP, exasperated when Web Gauge sessions were initiated. This resolved when I revised the HTTP Port to 8080 (per YDWG manual instruction).
I’ve reconfigured the YDWG server settings to most potential configs, TCP, UDP, Ports, Checksums, filtering, etc. I’m now most stable using simple UDP and default ports.
From some reading on other blogs it seems “instability” is not uncommon with the YD and Actisence bridges, however I always tempered those comments potentially being attributed to config or N2K violations. I’ve thought about seeking a higher-end bridge like the Rosepoint NEMO thinking I’m just running short on processing power, but concerned that’s an expensive troubleshooting step…especially when I still have the issue with single sessions of Aqua Map or Web Gauges which I would think should be within the YDWG’s capabilities.
Apologies for the lengthy post, but thought I should disclose all of my attempted resolutions. Being a retired electrical engineer can be a blessing and a curse…
Hey Stephen,
Great with some details mate - good feedback.
The YDWG is a lot less powerful and we’ve indeed had issues with them forgetting WiFi all together after a while… Remember they can also be factory reset with frequent power loss to the N2K bus…
I would look at moving to a more solid platform for your use like the Actisense PRO-NDC-1E2K. It does not have the Gauge view from YD devices, but there’s a million apps out there than can do what YD Gauges do.
Personally, I prefer app like TZ iBoat but that’s becuase I use TimeZero as well. Alternative would be apps like Navionics that also allows you to make your own depth maps via the network sounder from Garmin, Simrad/B&G and Furuno…
Also - Be very careful with LEN Values on Garmin systems… If not balanced properly it could also cause issues.
Finally, make sure you balance your WiFi properly. Set channels to not overlap, adjust bands and frequencies to match and so on. If using the Nighthawk made a little difference, could also be your network needs some tuning.
Nik - Appreciate the thorough feedback. One clarification regarding the N2K balancing. I designed so it didn’t exceed max load limits, but not necessarily balancing….assuming you mean to insure the load is balanced either side of the power feed connection? I’m I understanding that correctly?
Thanks!
Hey,
Yup - Power on the NMEA backbone can cause all sorts of funny things
Here’s some good material around this:
NMEA 2000 Network Fundamentals | PROMT Parts
Technical_Reference_for_Garmin_NMEA_2000_Products_EN-US.pdf
NMEA 2000 Basics
Check this first, along with your WiFi configuration.
Ensure your channels are separate, use 20Mhz for 2.4 and 40Mhz for 5G to ensure long range and lower speeds for stability.
Also, worth checking stuff like IGMP Snooping, mDNS support and the type of switch used too! If you use a silly stupid switch, it might be the culprit!
Check and update the YDWG firmware to the latest version.
Thanks, I stay current on firmware updates on all devises.
I would also consider something like Signal K running on a Raspberry Pi. All of the purpose built gateways are a bit underpowered for larger NMEA 2000 networks, and I have had stability issues with all of them in both real world customer scenarios and test setups aboard my boats.
As you’ve found, the Yacht Devices products have some stability issues, although some nice graphs. The Actisense products are OK, but they don’t have as many features as the YD ones. There are a host of other smaller companies that have some solutions, but they suffer from the performance and feature problems as well.
Signal K has its own issues, given that it is open source, but as a NMEA gateway, it is quite good. Additionally, the CPU in a Raspberry Pi is quite a bit more performant than anything you’ll find in a gateway product. The only downside is that you’ll have to setup the Raspberry Pi and install Signal K and the various plugins.
There are some fantastic display options within Signal K as well, and also apps like WilhelmSK that do a lot more with displaying your data on various mobile devices.
three APs on a 52 footer? thats overkill. one ap centrally located on a 60 footer is plenty in my experience. as for aqua maps, i have experience with that as well. why not just run it independently on an ipad? i have done multi thousand mile trips with it that way. why do you feel you need any NEMA data for it? we had one ipad we moved between the multiple helm stations.
While a centrally located AP could do the job, performance and reliability would not be adequate. Aesthetics are also a consideration. Vessel construction materials can also impact WiFi signal. Our 1500 gallons of fuel tanks are steel construction. They are tall and wide which creates a signal inpenetrable wall full beam and height on our lowest level (of 3). We mount the router in a centrally located top deck locker to keep antenna leads within the 6.5ft (2m) length to minimize antenna lead loss. This central location on the top deck allows the integral AP to easily reach two AP One AXs, one forward and one aft on the middle main level. One via Ethernet cabling the other via mesh. Care was taken to reduce power transmission as not to create issue with saturation. Without the AP One AX’s mounted as they are our ability to stream TV and use WiFi telephone calling become unreliable on the most forward and aft locations of our lower level. Important locations in our layout.
NMEA data on Aqua Map is not a requirement, but enhances features for a more usable experience. We find that using the vessel satellite GPS and heading data versus the less accurate iOS derived GPS has a multitude of benefit. Especially at slow cruising speeds. Furthermore GPS via iOS is dependent on cell tower availability, not always available in remote locations. We have recently been using the Pepwave’s GPS for Aqua Map while at anchor using its anchor alarm feature. This provides a secondary satellite GPS (primary is chartplotter) for anchor alarm (safety system) redundancy.
I’m helplessly colorblind and usually can not discern a red from green navigation marker, hence a co-pilot is required when I’m at the helm. It’s preferred to have my co-pilot viewing a portable iPad, running an accurate (location and heading) session of Aqua Map.
I’d suggest not to judge without basis, nor tout experience which could mislead the less informed or knowledgeable.
Steve - Thanks for the useful feedback. Always been curious about Signal K, this will give me a reason to study on it.
gotcha ok, you have your reasons, i was mainly curious as i tend to overcomplicate and overengineer things myself lol.