SOLVED: Access point decision for home

Product Discussion Pepwave AP & Surf
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I have a 4 story house that is approx 2200 sq ft. I live in an urban area with a ton of interference. This has been my experience and what I ended up having to do…

I started off with 3 AP. They were the AP One Mini’s. Had a lot of coverage issues plus devices would not hand off so nicely between APs. Part of that has to do with the devices but part of it (I believe) is also Peplink related. I’ve tweaked some of the CTS settings to make it better but I would not consider it ideal.

Then - I ran into several devices that just didn’t support a mesh network with multiple APs broadcasting an SSID. Most of these devices end up being IOT type of devices. Ring Doorbell, Kuna Lights, Joule from ChefSteps to name a few. I put in a feature request to allow the AP Standard edition to have Profiles like the Pro edition does. This would allow me to setup an SSID assigned to a single AP (as opposed to all) to get around the problem. You cannot do this at present with the “Standard Edition.”

My final solution…

Purchase 2 Enterprise APs. Placed those on the 2nd and 3rd Floor. Those APs are managed by my Balance One. Repurposed 2 of the AP One Minis for my devices that need a single AP/dedicated SSID. Place one on the 1st floor and 1 on the 4th. Each has it’s own SSID. These devices are NOT being managed by the Balance One since doing so would not allow me to dedicate an SSID. :frowning: So far it works even though it isn’t ideal. The 2 Enterprise APs have much better coverage and I find the amount of handing off between the devices reduced which has really helped.

YMMV - just one person’s view.

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@Joey_van_der_Gaag

Thanks again Joey. I am in the US, so I submitted the question to a major US-based reseller who also actively participates on this board - 3GStore. I am hoping to hear back. @Michael_Ginsberg

@Ryan_Finger

Great info Ryan. Thanks to you as well. I also have quite a few IoT devices (e.g., 5 Amazon Echos, 10 TP Link smart plugs), so that info is VERY interesting. Seems like either the AP One Enterprise or the Rugged is the way to go if I want Peplink APs…and that I may need at least 2. Ouch. That direction is pricey for residential use. I’ll need to think about that. I was hoping to avoid going with another vendor because the integrated management looks great, but I also am not enthusiastic about spending $1000 US on APs to replace (admittedly dated) APs that are working fairly well.

And if I am reading those radiation patterns correctly, the Rugged is not a great option unless I want to buy one for each floor.

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We’ve got your message via our ticket system and will be reaching out to Peplink for more information. Hopefully they can jump in on this thread, but we’ll see if they have any additional details on the antenna pattern and vertical coverage.

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Thanks much Kevin. I received your prompt and thoughtful reply via email. Much appreciated.

For folks in the US - 3GStore rocks. If you shop on Amazon, make sure the vendor is 3GStore.

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@scuba_steve, @Joey_van_der_Gaag, please find the AP coverage comparison below. Please take note, wireless survey is needed to determine how many APs are needed for the environment.

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Thanks, but I don’t see the answer to my question there. That page has a metric for unobstructed line of sight, but I was asking specifically about vertical coverage differences between the AP One and the Rugged.

The radiation patterns @Alan posted back in January show distinctly different vertical coverage patterns for the AP One and the Rugged, listed as Dual-Band Wi-Fi Antenna on that page:

https://forum.peplink.com/t/radiation-patterns/8109?source_topic_id=11002

My current inference is that the Rugged’s vertical radiation pattern has many distict lobes with dead spots and is far less likely to give decent coverage vertically than the AP One. I was asking for confirmation of that inference.

Thanks.

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Well, it’s been more than a week since I posted my original question with still no definitive answer about how to interpret those radiation patterns, but the consensus seems to be that I will need more than one AP.

Given that the Mini is having serious connection issues right now, I seem to be left with the AP One and the Rugged as my options…and I cannot justify the expense of buying two or three of them for a residential install at those prices. Thus, I am probably going to bite the bullet and go with another brand, giving up the cool integrated management, which admittedly I will probably not be using much after setup.

Anyone have much luck getting Ubiquiti APs to use VLANs defined on a Balance router?

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Well, yes, Ubiquity will certainly do what you want. And, their integration with mobile “apps” is tighter and far more useful than Peplink’s. But what you propose to do is spend much more $$ to add Ubiquity devices (APs and controller) than it would cost you to add a Peplink AP or two. The “minis” are fine APs and I suspect you need not go “whole hog” on the higher-end models. We’ve used the minis extensively with good results. Also, we would never dedicate an AP to a single SSID unless there was a compelling reason to do so.

I might say I think you’ve been given excellent advice here by @Joey_van_der_Gaag, @Ryan_Finger and @TK_Liew .

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Thanks for the feedback. Nice to hear that folks have had good luck with the Minis. The thread here documenting connectivity issues is not confidence inspiring, and there seem to be quite a few complaints of dropped connections elsewhere.

I really have wanted to go with Peplink given how much more you get in terms of software and commitment to the devices after the sale. Heck, I bought a $400 Balance One instead of a $50 Edge router, so I get it. :wink:

That said, I don’t see how Ubiquiti APs would be more expensive. A rough equivalent of the AP One Enterprise seems to be the UniFi AP AC One Pro, which is $130 (US) retail and ships with a POE adapter. It’s on sale in a brick and mortar near me for even less this weekend. The AP One Enterprise is $250 and does not ship with a POE adapter, so I need to either buy one for each AP or buy a POE switch. Even if you buy a CloudKey controller ($75) you are spending less, especially if you are buying multiple APs, and you don’t need to buy a controller if you just install the software on a device in your network.

But cost isn’t really the main driver for me. No doubt, it’s a factor, but my primary goals are good coverage, solid connectivity, decent functionality, and security. Given that I am in a three floor house, good coverage also means vertical coverage, which if the devices don’t provide it, means 3 APs (one for each floor), and when I get to three AP One Es, cost starts to become a factor. :wink: Hence, my original question about interpreting the radiation patterns.

With regards to Ubiquiti’s mobile config advantage, I can see why it may convey advantage to some folks, but it really has no value to me. I lock down my devices so they are only manageable on my local (hardwired) LAN. So no points off to Peplink there for me.

BTW, I don’t plan to run just one SSID. I have four VLANs currently defined on my Balance and plan to expose three of them for wireless - trusted, guest, and IoT devices. Hence, my later question - if I define VLANs on my Balance and use the same numeric VLAN IDs when I setup SSIDs on Ubiquiti APs, will those APs tag the frames in a standard manner that the Balance will be able to associate with the VLANs defined on the Balance?

Just keeping my options open.

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It does.

Imo, while we can’t match Ubiquiti in terms of price (there’s a lot of factors that determine this), I believe our APs still offer good value for money ratio against other enterprise brands, in terms of quality, interface, central manageable, add-on features like social wifi and advertisement system. I myself love Ubiquiti products as well, and it’s a great combination for home deployment along with our Balance router. :wink:

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KV: Thought I might mention … The Ubiquity and Peplink products are “different birds” in some respects. Both make “good stuff.” However their are significant differences. The most poignant issue: Ubiquity’s lack of effective support – compared to Peplink’s which is really quite excellent.

The only areas where Peplink is a bit behind, from what we’ve seen, are (1) the utility of the mobile “apps,” and (2) the efficiency with which the APs seem to “hand off” to one another. All-in-all Peplink is the preferred solution on our end. We hope Peplink is keenly aware of the competition, however. :grinning:

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Hello @scuba_steve,
We have moved this post to a new updated thread

Happy to Help,
Marcus :slight_smile:

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Dang it Marcus, just when I had decided to go the other way. :wink:

Okay, too much analysis, not enough testing. I ordered a single AP One Enterprise from 3GStore…and a PoE switch. I’ll give it a shot.

And because no good deed goes unpunished, I may come back here for advice on how to configure it and my Balance so 1) the Balance is the central management point, and 2) the AP broadcasts 3 separate SSIDs, with each one associated with one of the VLANs defined on the Balance. I have been scanning both manuals so I think I see what I need to do, but any advice or shared best practices would be great.

Thanks again to all. :+1:

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I might mention: You’ll find the “linkage” between VLANs and SSIDs nicely documented in multiple posts on this forum. It’s not difficult – and it works!

And, you’ll find the Balance manages the quite AP(s) easily. Short, flat learning curve.

:smiley:

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I’m going to move these questions to a separate post since they are unrelated to the thread title.

Thanks to all for the advice.

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To close the loop -

I configured the AP One Enterprise and dropped it into my home network to test it out this weekend. Short version - it rocks.

Config through the Balance is a breeze and coverage is fantastic. I placed it on the second floor of my house, where I want the strongest wireless signal. I hoped it would also provide decent coverage for the first floor. It does…and to my surprise, the coverage in the basement is also fantastic. Sure, I can see some signal degradation, but speed down there significantly exceeds my expectations. I thought I would definitely need at least one more AP and I am no longer sure I do.

And a big thumbs up for the support I received from 3GStore before and after the sale. Great stuff. :+1:

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Scuba_Steve, Your situation was of interest. I’m considering a Balance One Core for use in a new home. And as you, I was concerned with coverage and the potential need for and cost of multiple AP One Enterprise’s.

Our home is 2,700 sq.ft main floor and 2,700sg.ft walk-out basement, partially finished.

You apparently have 2-floors, plus a basement and you have only employed one (1) AP One Enterprise on the 2nd.floor. It then covers 2-additional levels – the 1st. floor and basement. Do I have it correct? If so, how many square feet are your levels?

More importantly, with my described house’s configuration and size do you believe 1-AP One Enterprise mounted on the ceiling and centrally located on the main floor, would cover both the main floor and the basement? I allowed for close to 30 hardwired CAT 6 locations, so Wi-Fi is not of vital import. Nevertheless, I would like good coverage on both floors.

Scuba_Steve your thoughts and of course anyone else’s are encourage and welcomed…Thanks.

Lastly, in addition to Ubiquiti AP’s, I was also considering TP-Link’s EAP-225’s which are well priced and have been very positively reviewed coming out on the top of the 8 tested AP’s.

As my initial post explains, this will be my first LAN deployment. So, I along with my buddy are doing due diligence as to hardware selections. As this post suggests, Scuba_Steve, your configuration involved VLANS and segregating IoT devices and ours does also. So, although we’re techie, we’re networking neophytes. Thus, simplicity is not only a good thing, it is essentially mandatory. Thus, with a Balance One, is it safe to assume that Peplink AP’s are the best way to proceed?

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Hello @Audiophile,
We use in our own place a Balance ONE, our place is double story with concrete floor, brick walls and plenty of interference around the area on the Wi-Fi spectrum, in a separate building out the back is a small warehouse (the size of a double garage). The Balance ONE resides at the front of the place down stairs.

From this single Balance ONE we have connectivity to our vehicles parked out the front in the street, connectivity to portable devices out the back in the Warehouse and connectivity through out the rest of the place. Due to landlord restrictions we have to run everything via wireless, bandwidth is a challenge at the coverage extremes, though we have not need to add any additional equipment to date.

If you are looking to start with something simple, the Balance ONE is a great place to begin and is feature packed.
Happy to Help,
Marcus :slight_smile:

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Thanks midowling. I was thinking that a Balance One Core may be the way to go with an AP or two. But you’re suggesting that a Balance One with Wi-Fi, may be all that we need.

Good to know that your Balance One resides down stairs. Our structured wiring terminations are in the basement and that’s where the router will be placed. My concern was that the signal may not travel as well up as it would down. Hence, my thought of placing an AP up on our main floor and having no Wi-Fi radio down (in the basement).

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Hello @Audiophile,
We have many sites with the Balance ONE (not the CORE) where we also have installed separate WAPs such as the Pepwave AP ONE Rugged. Normally we will disable the WAP within the Balance ONE keeping that for backup and support.
Running from a basement, if your floors are wooden then you may have enough signal, if the floor is concrete then we would have to recommend you use a separate WAP (or two). Our place has lots of windows without tinting, so the RF can propagate around the place, if we had tinted windows on the building, we would certainly not have the coverage we currently are experiencing.
Happy to Help,
Marcus :slight_smile: